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Political Stuff

Discussion in 'Social Discussion' started by electrolyte, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. KillMoles

    KillMoles
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    Remember Ancel Keys and the lipid hypothesis? Not long ago the government actively promoted this junk science, encouraging everyone to eat less saturated fat and to eat margarine instead, for example. Researchers who agreed with this were given more money for research, and researches who didn't agree were forced out and lost all their funding. What does science say now? Eating saturated fat does not cause cardiovascular disease and the butter and lard that everyone had been using before was not nearly as bad for you as the partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and other processed junk they were trying to make us eat instead. The government subjected an entire generation to a twisted medical experiment gone horribly wrong.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis
    or this if you're really interested:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pue5qVW5k8A

    Why would the government do all that before, and what does it have to do with global warming climate change? Money, power, control, etc. Not all scientists agree that the changing climate is caused by man. Sound familiar? But now that there is a group of scientists that do believe it, it can be used by some in power as leverage to promote an agenda. Leverage giving them quite a bit of control since nearly everything today requires energy to run. Want to promote globalism and control entire countries worldwide? A Carbon Tax sure would be a nice way to start that. Let us control you, it's for the children. Lots of reasons some people in power want this, but it all boils down to money and control. The EU already thinks it can write laws affecting and controlling websites hosted outside of the EU. No thank you.

    I don't debate and I'm not much into philosophical thinking, and I probably did a terrible job of sharing my thoughts here, but hopefully it's clear that I'm with the other scientists. The ones who have solid proof that the average temperature of the Earth has been going up and down forever, and since long before man could possibly affect it.
    One quick chart, I'm sure there are better ones.
    http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm
     
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  2. Jaded

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    The real themildone

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    Thanks for answering :) That video looks interesting.
     
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  3. DCI

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    Climate change is one of the most widely studied topics in the history of the world. Millions of people from around the world have been researching it for decades. People are free to have some flexibility in their interpretations of data, but the idea that the consensus opinion on this subject is the product of nefarious motives isn't very rational.

    While some people have done shady things for grant money, it's obviously not something anywhere near as common as people just doing their jobs, a large portion of whom aren't funded by grants. There also isn't much meaningful power to be derived from misleading people to believe that the risks are more than what they actually are. Sure, some governments have the power to do things like mandating auto manufacturers to improve fuel efficiency standards, but it's an incredibly useless power to exercise just for the hell of it. All of the meaningful incentives to mislead fall on the side of being less cautious wrt to the environment in the interest of less short term expense.
     
    #3843 DCI, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  4. jan

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    More bad things are in the works for tonight.
    :(
    I wish I were able to move. I hate this country.
     
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  5. ChristopherASA

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  6. jklmnop

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    The point of climate change denial? It's easy. Those whose wealth and/or power depends on the continued use of energy sources and practices that destroy the earth in the process will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to hold onto that wealth and/or power. Even if it means damning the future of their own cities, states, and countries. Even if it means damning the future of their own offspring (within reason; the richest among us will be the most likely to survive large-scale disruptions of civil society).

    You can read the IPCC's findings here: http://ipcc.ch/ Click the Organization link for more information about what the IPCC is and does, and here is a summary of the findings. http://ipcc.ch/news_and_events/pr_181008_P48_spm.shtml
     
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  7. jklmnop

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    I've only watched the first part, but I believe this may also be related to the environmental/climate change conversation, as concerns the way in which money and power are wielded in this country at the expense of ordinary people and the public interest. It's free on PBS right now and it's been widely lauded:

    https://www.pbs.org/pov/darkmoney/video/darkmoney/

    review
     
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  8. Jaded

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    The real themildone

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    I understand why they would deny climate change, that makes total sense. I more meant what the gain would be for scientists to make up climate change. Like if it was all a big hoax, what would be the gain for them?

    Thanks for the links, probably a good idea to educate myself on this a bit more.
     
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  9. sinon

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    Watashi ga Kita!

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    I watched a documentary not too long ago that exposed several industries of lying about their "product" so they could make more money. Cigarettes is the quickest, easiest example of that. The companies basically lied to their consumers and hired people to go into industries, rewrite laws, build rapport etc...

    Just to say, "No, there is no evidence that smoking cigarettes is bad for you." This was a group that decided selling poison to the populace and covering it up was better for their end goal of making money. I don't think there's honestly an ounce of humanity left with people/companies that can operate like that.

    Take that and combine it with climate change and what @jklmnop@jklmnop said makes a lot of sense. I suspect that those in power making arguments against climate change know full well it's real, is happening, and we're doomed if we don't figure it out. They just convinced themselves that lying and covering it up is the best thing to do, because they don't feel they can change it anyway.


    The other half of the equation are the people who have been either bought out to "support" anti-climate change efforts, or are citizens convinced it isn't happening. So you've got a bunch of people paid by big corporations, like the fossil fuel industry, going around trying to rewrite laws, convince people their stuff is safe (or in climate change, for instance, that it isn't real, is a "hoax" etc)...

    TLDR: The scientists, I don't think, would get anything out of it. At least, not what the deniers would lead you to believe, anyway... I believe the people in power made a bogus conspiracy theory that others bought into. The average citizen wrapped up in climate change denial could argue that maybe the scientists profit, or something. But it's a stupid argument because that would infer that 99% of scientists want to go down with the ship rather than save it.
     
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  10. KillMoles

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    I don't think scientists are making up climate change at all.
    There are some scientists that study it and believe that man is causing it to some extent.
    There are other scientists that study it and believe that it's always been changing and that man can't really affect it much.
    If you look at some scientific forums it's easy to see that most of what's going on is still largely unknown. It's like discussing the origin of the universe.
    Here's one example where they discuss whether temperature change and CO2 lead or lag each other, and whether one causes the other or is there more to it. https://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2017/06/18/what-does-the-vostok-ice-core-tell-us/
    That's all scientific research and discussion, which is great.

    What I don't like are those in power, like politicians, business leaders, and others with influence who have picked one of the many possible lines of thought on this subject, have decided it is the one truth, and that they are now free to force people to do whatever they say is needed. Those people have a lot to gain from manipulating entire industries, and energy production and use around the world.
     
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  11. cassius

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  12. jan

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  13. jklmnop

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  14. jml

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    Let's be careful jumping to conclusions guys, we don't want to ruin Mohammed bin Salman's life!
     
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  15. DCI

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    smash cut to lock her up chant at rally
     
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  16. DCI

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    Early voting numbers are through the roof so far. Not really too surprising.

    Pollsters ask people things like if they plan on voting or how important they think the upcoming election is. There isn't any "I've been marking off the days on my calendar for the last year and I would crawl over broken glass to vote" option.
     
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  17. cassius

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    Cambridge Analytics is working hard tonight for @TedCruz & clearly the oil and gas industry. Look at these identical tweets at identical times from various accounts. Not original human responses. Vote for @BetoORourke & real Texans & not just special interests.
    https://twitter.com/BruceLesley
     
  18. cassius

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  19. PeachyRider

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    Real Southern Comfort

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    this is not geared towards any party, but just the current times we’re in. i’m sad. i’m disappointed. social media has done so much damage to society. i can’t check out one political tweet on Twitter or one post on Facebook without scrolling to the comments and seeing hateful comments (from supporters of both parties or independents, etc). it’s toxic

    i also think politics in general is toxic. it’s all mostly a beauty pageant

    it’s hard to believe anything. because you don’t know what’s ever true

    i don’t identify with either side. i just see a politician and see if i agree with most of their stances. i’m becoming a fan of Beto. compared to Cruz - he’s night and day

    i just iuno...

    i’m just sad in general
    this is just a rant
     
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    #3859 PeachyRider, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  20. cassius

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    jan likes this.