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Political Stuff

Discussion in 'Social Discussion' started by electrolyte, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    data sanitation engineer

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    None of us are experts...if we were, we wouldn't be turking lol

    I think too many people (elected officials, politicians, lobbyists, giant corporations, special interest groups, dark money PACs, foreign governments, and yes, even some journalists, pundits, and political content mills (e.g., The Hill)) have too vested an interest in sowing confusion and doubt among Americans rn. For a lot of these stakeholders, profiting from division is nothing new. The sheer ferocity of the discord, that is not new either frankly, but it is a sustained negative shift in our collective discourse not seen since the civil rights movement (imo, still thinking through this) and weaponized by TPTB and social media feedback loops.

    We could be approaching a[nother] dangerous time in this nation's history. Hopefully those who may not agree with previous things I've said about Trump and this White House are at least willing to agree to the basic ground truth that Trump and the current administration lie. A LOT. About pretty much everything. Often in shocking ways, given how many of them are refutable by simple google searches. And these lies are damaging our democracy. It is not just about lying politicians lying. It's about the incompetence and cruelty undergirding the lies, and what that means for our systems of government and civic life.

    I studied media in school and would have enjoyed going on to teach it perhaps, had my life gone in a different direction. If you or anyone want to think more critically about the news, just start with being a bit more skeptical, of everything, even (some might say especially) things that support your viewpoint. There's the old phrase "trust but verify;" in our current media landscape it should be more like "verify, then trust." Consider the author and outlet of everything you see and read. Who are they? Who do they work for? What is their MO? What else have they written? Who is paying for this work? Who benefits from it? Right now there are people out there being paid to make political meme gifs. Who are those people working for?

    It's also very dangerous to our democracy for public officials to attack the free press in the manner like what's happening now. Newspapers and major news agencies (like the AP) especially are the domain of principled journalists, and maintain editorial standards to ensure the veracity of their publications. The NYT, WaPo, AP, Reuters, FT, for hard news these and a handful of others in the western world are non-negotiable sources. They are the papers and news agencies of record, full stop. These are the accounts of this time period that will live on when we're gone. From there in the US you have things like WSJ, Bloomberg, the newspaper chains, outlets that organize and editorialize towards a certain viewpoint but also produce reputable news. Second-tier sources, such as cable and local TV news outlets, most of which are owned and/or operated by major corporations or international conglomerates, also provide some good reporting, but are, pretty much without exception, more focused on monetizing the events of each day in a way that will maximize eyeballs (profit) than on informing viewers. Then there's radio and podcasts, which are interesting but polarized, and the wild west of social media and the internet as a whole. It takes practice to relentlessly interrogate the information you encounter.

    That was a book, sorry :sofa: What floored me about the NK meeting was that elsewhere in the world we are breaking with our oldest allies in order to play up to someone like Kim Jong Un, a brutal dictator who had his own half-brother killed, who orders his own military officials to be executed, who maintains power in part through propaganda and systematic oppression? This NYT mini-doc from late last year, at the time of escalating tensions, is very much worth a watch. Anyway, *this* is the guy we want to appease and share photo ops with, while our allies and trading partners get kicked around on treaties and trade, which in the end will hurt people like us on the lower end of the economic scale the most, as prices for everyday goods go up and wages continue to stagnate? And with all of the pomp and circumstance, we did not even get Kim Jong Un to sign anything binding and/or useful towards denuclearization. It is the kind of spectacle that should prompt you to ask, who are they working for? What is their MO? Who benefits? Etc.

    fuck it's late
     
    #3261 jklmnop, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  2. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    data sanitation engineer

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    That's unfortunate. My last post is kind of written to discuss this.
     
    #3262 jklmnop, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  3. iDoseDMT

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    I may or may not be here

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    I agree it's unfortunate, but I don't see any reason why anyone with a Pro-Trump opinion cannot post their opinion in this thread. If you feel strongly that what Trump has done as President is in some way good (or certain policies were good) you should feel confident enough to state that opinion and argue for said opinion. But instead, people make an ironic statement that "there is a lack a diversity" instead of arguing the counterpoint of why they think Trump is doing a good job. If you want diversity in this thread, why not state and argue your opinions in the thread so there is that diversity.
     
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  4. DCI

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    @PeachyRider@PeachyRider I can only speak for myself, but if you were to name any prominent politician from the last 30 years, whether Republican, Democrat, or other, in most cases I could give you at least a short list of things that person did that I think are pretty good. I can't do that with Donald Trump. The only thing that immediately comes to mind was his response to the first chemical attack in Syria, which is something, but it's a little bit like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer was a good athlete. Good for him, but he ate his neighbors, so I'm not going to spend much time giving him props for his 800m times.

    Most of my biggest issues with Trump don't have anything to do with where he falls on the political spectrum. This is the most important job in the world. A president should be competent and well-intentioned, and Donald Trump isn't either of those things. A good example of the kind of thing that makes him unfit for office in my eyes is that he isn't even willing to put in the proper time for his daily security briefings. Obviously this is pretty important material for a president to be educated on, but this president is simply too lazy to do it, and that shouldn't be acceptable to anyone. That's just a person choosing to not do their job, and it's the kind of behavior that would get anyone fired from their job that can actually be fired from their job.
    This isn't something that's just been reported via anonymous sources, btw. The president actually did an interview with Chris Wallace in late 2016 where he publicly defended skipping most of his security briefings, saying “You know, I'm, like, a smart person. I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. Could be eight years — but eight years. I don't need that. But I do say, ‘If something should change, let us know.’”

    Not all coins have two sides, and unrelenting criticism isn't necessarily self-invalidating. If you asked me what I thought about drinking poison, I would say that drinking poison is bad because poison tastes bad, having poison in your stomach is painful, and ingesting poison can kill you. I don't have anything good to say about drinking poison, and that isn't going to change tomorrow or the day after that. A rational opinion of my opinion of drinking poison would be something like "Yeah, obviously" not "Typical never poisoner, indoctrinated and brainwashed by the puppets of the liberal Illuminati. Why don't you ever talk about the good things poison does inside of your body? So biased." Dismissing harsh criticism because it isn't balanced is a very irrational thing to do, because it doesn't leave open the possibility of something being clearly bad and ensures an inadequate response to anything that actually is unquestionably bad. It's one of many blanket deflection techniques that people use, either knowingly or unknowingly, to avoid acknowledging obvious truths.

    As I've said before, I have no doubt that if the current president was just some run of the mill Republican like Mitt Romney or John McCain, a decent amount of people would be just as critical. A lot of people are just bitter partisans and always will be. That being said, it's not as if there's no correlation between presidential job performance and public opinion. All presidents get a lot of criticism, but all other things being equal, a bad president will be criticized much more than a good one. If everywhere you look people are complaining loudly about the president, maybe there's more to it than just partisanship or some sort of global conspiracy. It's important to consider what things would look like if a president actually was horrible at his job. It's also important to consider how big of a deal it is if a president is horrible at their job, and why whatever good things a very powerful person might do aren't as newsworthy as the really bad things that they do.

    @&lt;Gucci&gt;@<Gucci> I actually consider the president's handling of the North Korea situation to be the worst thing that he's done as president.

    First let me just say that I don't blame Donald Trump for North Korea. I also don't blame Obama, Bush, or Clinton. I blame North Korea for North Korea, because they're the ones that made the decision to pursue nuclear weapons at all costs, even if it meant millions of their own people starving to death. The only way they were ever going to deviate from this course is if they were somehow removed from power.

    That being said, what Donald Trump did, in my opinion, is one of the most disgraceful things that I've seen in my lifetime. He only did a tiny fraction of the work needed to deal with this, and he basically faked a resolution to a very serious problem. Most Americans (myself included) know very little about the history of American/North Korean foreign policy or the current situation, and he took advantage of that and just looked into a camera and told everyone it's all good when not much has actually changed at all. It was a very lazy, selfish, and dishonest thing to do, and it's probably going to come back to bite him even though it was good for him politically in the short term.
     
    #3265 DCI, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  5. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    data sanitation engineer

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    Related to your point about briefing books, this from a new foreign policy piece out today:

    Trump’s lack of preparation has added a further level of unpredictability to his interactions with foreign leaders, the officials said. The president rarely reads his nightly briefing book, which focuses on issues likely to come up in meetings, a second senior U.S. official said. To slim down Trump’s workload, aides have sometimes put the most critical information in a red folder, the official said.

    ...

    Next week is shaping up to be the start of a very significant period wrt foreign policy. (hmmm, next two weeks rather)
     
    #3266 jklmnop, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  6. Horse Feathers

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    There's no future in time travel.

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    lol, good advice.

     
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  7. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
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    There's no future in time travel.

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    I decided not to make fun of Twitler in order to keep the peace. His own words yesterday. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. <Gucci>

    <Gucci>
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    Francis Manancis ...fuck you...

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    Amazing @jklmnop@jklmnop
    This is so well written. I hope you blog,edit, and write because you are absolutely captivating. :blueheart:
    I’m still looking at a lot of the links and stuff you posted up. I learned a lot.
    This wasn’t a bash fest it was so organized and well written I’m still stunned.
    Thank you for taking the time to teach someone something.
    I feel like a lot of good things are happening in this thread and we are all having some interesting conversations.
    I’m super into all of this!
     
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  9. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
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    There's no future in time travel.

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    In a nutshell:

    In the final hours of Scott Pruitt’s tenure as administrator, the Environmental Protection Agency moved on Friday to effectively grant a loophole that will allow a major increase in the manufacturing of a diesel freight truck that produces as much as 55 times the air pollution as trucks that have modern emissions controls.

     
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  10. Nite

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  11. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
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    There's no future in time travel.

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  12. cassius

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    I saw this this morning and my thought was so vaccinations good, breast feeding bad. Okay. let's see breast feeding helps further the immunization process that starts with the baby growing inside of mom and picking up antibodies. Then when breast feeding it continues to give an amount of protection to the baby. Whether vaccinations are bad or not, well, I don't know. I only know what happens to cats when they are continuously vaccinated. But something doesn't add up here. Oh wait, it's about big corporations. Yeah, I get it now.
     
  13. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
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    There's no future in time travel.

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    Perks to belonging to Mar-A-Lardo. Seems legit. /s

     
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  14. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    data sanitation engineer

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    I guess there are no security risks when you're already compromised.
     
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  15. DCI

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    Supreme Court hype is so lame. Is anyone really on the edge of their seat waiting to find out which conservative judge will get nominated? Does anyone even know who any of these people are? We all understand that if a nominee doesn't get confirmed that they just get another one and do it again, right?

    I know this is important, but that doesn't make it entertaining. I'd rather watch Baby Driver for the second time today than listen to people talk about this all night.
     
  16. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    data sanitation engineer

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    Great music in Baby Driver. No SCOTUS pick is good for regular people when it comes from a Federalist Society list.

    I've moved on to mentally preparing for our withdrawal from NATO later this week

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ade1f8-8129-11e8-b9a5-7e1c013f8c33_story.html
     
    #3277 jklmnop, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  17. DCI

    DCI
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    #3278 DCI, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  18. jklmnop

    jklmnop
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    Everyone everywhere should watch this clip.
     
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  19. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
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    There's no future in time travel.

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    So messed up he has to make up bullshit just to entertain his brainwashed minions. "I'm telling you a true story" was the only clue you needed to know he was lying. Last night.

     
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