Welcome to MTurk Crowd

Work on Amazon Mechanical Turk, learn from the best, and have fun doing it. Join the crowd today!

Sign Up

Political Stuff

Discussion in 'Social Discussion' started by electrolyte, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463
    He was broken a long time ago if ancient internet records are to be believed.

    the quest becomes now what will Europe do? Germany must be torn. it is still Germany and has deeper connections to Iran than PC will ever allow them to admit.
    The tale of two Germanys, take it for what it's worth. They are only a small blip in what is going on right now.
    https://iranian.com/2018/05/10/europe-rebelled/
    and P not C
    http://www.iranchamber.com/geography/articles/persia_became_iran.php
    Yes, the deeds of the past come back to haunt us. Who set the shah in power? Who destroyed his reign? Now why is Persia in turmoil? Oh yeah, oil and gas, oil and gas. there's also a rumor they refused to purchase American made jets with the money they received from Obama.
     
    jan likes this.
  2. jan

    jan
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    9,160
    Likes:
    19,943
    I purchased the Shah's autobiography in HS :)

    I thought with Obama we were moving forward with honesty. Now, we're moving backwards and it's so hard to watch
     
    cassius likes this.
  3. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463
    It is difficult to watch. And I am torn. First husband and a good man, he just had other obligations I couldn't deal with, but many of my friends are Persian. If I go out at all it's to a Persian event. They are wonderful people, intelligent, educated and right now very troubled. To hear the stories of how they got here, to hear of the life some of them had to live in Iran because of what the US did to the Middle East, not just them. Refugees are so because we went in and destroyed what they had, and it is horrible. They tell me they were constantly on the move and didn't know where they were sleeping, if they slept at all, from one night to the next. We hear talk about how dangerous the refugee camps are and are supposed to think how evil these people are. No, we'd be in the same place is we were at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid.
    And there are some like displayed on Bravo who seem to be out of control. But if one looks under the surface one will see the secrets embedded there and Bravo is just providing outrageous content. There are two things Persians have in common. One is that dark, dark look of fear that exists in their eyes and the other is that in my own experience I've found even the most educated still seem to have that child in them that never grows up. They have their own sophistication and still are sometimes very naive. And as a side, many of the friends my husband and I made while he was in college are gone now. They weren't as fortunate as him and had to make their way back. They didn't survive. Yes, I helped my husband stay here by making him such but before he finished school a letter arrived from Iran government stating the green card and marriage meant nothing and he was to come home immediately after graduation because he now had a polisci degree. It took a "strong arm" from somewhere to intervene for him and I won't say where that arm came from but it was from the US and not from god.
     
    jan likes this.
  4. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
    Expand Collapse
    There's no future in time travel.

    • Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    2,087
    Likes:
    5,898
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    jan and jklmnop like this.
  5. jklmnop

    jklmnop
    Expand Collapse
    data sanitation engineer

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes:
    9,052
  6. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
    Expand Collapse
    There's no future in time travel.

    • Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    2,087
    Likes:
    5,898
    More corruption to throw on top of the pile. Pruitt is an abomination.

     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    jan likes this.
  7. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463
  8. jan

    jan
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    9,160
    Likes:
    19,943


    • Donald Trump's personal attorney is facing new claims that he asked for millions in cash after the president's election victory, DailyMail.com can disclose
    • Source tells how Qatari investment executive who met Cohen at Trump Tower in December confided that attorney asked for cash for 'Trump family members'
    • Ahmed Al-Rumaihi, a former diplomat in charge of a $100bn Qatari investment fund, turned down the request, he told the source
    • The source said Al-Rumaihi called him after DailyMail.com revealed last week that the Qatari investor was accused of boasting about bribing Mike Flynn
    • Al-Rumaihi arrived with Qatar's foreign minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani and both went up in an elevator with Cohen
    • Al-Rumaihi issued a statement Tuesday confirming he was in Trump Tower in December to meet 'transition officials' but denied meeting Flynn
    • His company declined to comment on the allegation about 'millions of dollars'
    • Cohen's sales pitch to blue chip companies was: 'I have the best relationship with the president on the outside, and you need to hire me.'
    • Cohen's own attorney been contacted for comment but did not provide any response

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pass-Trump-family-members.html#ixzz5Fg8jM7SO
     
    cassius and Horse Feathers like this.
  9. jklmnop

    jklmnop
    Expand Collapse
    data sanitation engineer

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes:
    9,052
  10. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
    Expand Collapse
    There's no future in time travel.

    • Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    2,087
    Likes:
    5,898
    Not even mild shock.

     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    micky, Jaded and jan like this.
  11. Horse Feathers

    Horse Feathers
    Expand Collapse
    There's no future in time travel.

    • Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    2,087
    Likes:
    5,898
    Can't go one fucking day without more bullshit. This is real bad.

     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    micky and jan like this.
  12. DCI

    DCI
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes:
    3,754
    I don't believe that until I actually see it. Nothing like that ever goes to the floor right before a mid term and it wouldn't pass anyway.
     
  13. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463
    jan likes this.
  14. Achilles2357

    Achilles2357
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    966
    Likes:
    1,458
    I haven't searched the thread to see if this has been discussed at length... but I wonder what active mturkers think about "basic income". (I myself did a survey today on this and I think I've done several others too...). I wonder if there is any possibility of cutting across left-right political lines to support this idea. I am fairly sympathetic, and think that it could be a great idea in principle, but I am open to the idea that it could be a disaster.

    Let's say every 18 year old American citizen gets a certain income each year, paid weekly say. They get that no matter what. This replaces ALL other "public assistance" programs. I suspect it is important that EVERY citizen gets it NO MATTER WHAT. Maybe a murderer serving a life term gets it held in escrow, but he still gets it. It seems important that there be no opportunity for picking and choosing who gets it. Jeff Bezos gets it too, automatically. Obviously he has to pay taxes though.

    My gut sense is that this could be affordable, so long as it strictly replaces all other "public assistance" programs. Some of the people on these programs would lose benefits, but they would also lose the restrictions on their earning money.

    How much does an adult US citizen get each year? I'll throw down $10,000. That is probably in the right area.

    I don't think anything like this will work unless EVERY citizen gets it automatically, but it seems that it has some potential in that case.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    jklmnop and Jaded like this.
  15. jml

    jml
    Expand Collapse
    Midnight Marauder

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Messages:
    973
    Likes:
    3,294
    I think Universal Basic Income replacing other public assistance programs would create a system that is easily exploitable by the rich and bad news for the middle and lower class. It would give corporations more power as something like healthcare becomes increasingly privatized. I'd prefer more emphasis to be placed on those public assistance programs that make sure everyone has their necessities covered. Make sure everyone has quality healthcare, housing, education, food, childcare, etc. Don't just throw everyone a bunch of money and "alright guys, good luck!"

    Not to mention, post-implementation how long would it take before conservatives come along to try to chip away at UBI itself? There's a real chance that the amount of money you get from UBI would decrease or at least stagnate while those public assistance programs are also no longer available which would lead to a bad time.
     
    #3036 jml, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
    jklmnop and Jaded like this.
  16. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463

    We are going to need a basic income but it will have to be supportable for people meaning at this point people have a difficult time with 1000 a month, perhaps 1500 might do it and still keep us energized to find ways to make more money without being punished for it. This social system works in some Nordic countries so I hear. I've not witnessed it.
    But and this is where it will get difficult for businesses who want to skim every penny they can but replace us with AI. AI will have to be taxed as people are taxed now and will probably continue to be taxed if they are working individuals. But for every robot that replaces a person a tax system will have to be put in place for companies, not to punish them for the unemployment but to support the unemployment they created. Companies will scream but they created this with the brilliance of the human mind and I suppose help from the super collider since technology took off when that thing started running well and they can't just say goodbye humans now. The human mind is created and with support we will continue to find ways beyond AI to find good work and create good work for our own satisfaction.
    We have a mess now that we've created and we have to own up to the responsibility of that. Of course it doesn't help to have a president who is trying his best to destroy what we have and isolate us from other countries, a process I do not understand. But we are human and intelligent and need to find a way around these obstacles.
    If we don't well, sorry to say it but euthanasia is becoming legal in more and more states faster than marijuana and that will be the next path they decide for us if we don't start taking this matter into our own hands. I have no problem with someone who is tired of being ill or life has demolished them so much they don't want to endure life anymore and want to end it, I have no problem with that. But what I have the problem with is if given the door the government will go through it and decides who lives and dies and take that decision away from individuals and families.
     
  17. Achilles2357

    Achilles2357
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    966
    Likes:
    1,458
    I think your point on euthanasia makes sense. If that becomes legal, then I foresee insurance companies increasingly telling sick people that the recommended "treatment" is euthanasia (and that will be the only funded "treatment").
    As for "AI", I think that today it is often simply a marketing term. Computers get better and better, but they are not actually behaving as humans and never will. (This is a debatable point but I think it is true.) I don't think there is any real standard of when a computer system is an AI, and I think the idea of AI and robots replacing human workers is, while somewhat accurate, also misleading.
    Technology has always been replacing human workers, and this is both good and bad.
    But obviously there are tons of mturk hits that involve providing assistance to AI systems. They can't function without us! Some people have lost their regular jobs, and others (us!) are getting paid by the hit to train those systems. But we are getting paid much less in most cases.
    I think it is better to look towards a future in which many people do not expect to earn ongoing income from any single "job", but are instead encouraged to earn money in multiple ways.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Jaded likes this.
  18. Achilles2357

    Achilles2357
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    966
    Likes:
    1,458
    These are both good points.
    First, I think that the healthcare problem should probably be taken as a completely separate issue. I don't have any solution to that. The problem with healthcare is that to some degree it is inherently unpredictable, no matter how rich or poor you are. By contrast, most other costs are fairly predictable for a person in a given lifestyle. So when I suggest that a basic income might replace other public assistance, I am thinking of the other categories like housing, food, etc., but not healthcare. This isn't to say it isn't a problem, since it is obviously a major problem.
    I really see healthcare as involving a whole different set of issues. One problem is that US companies, which perform a significant chunk of medical research, are trying to fund their research by passing along costs to desperate sick people in the US. There are other issues too, but this issue seems fairly unique to the US, and ends up screwing anyone in the US who actually needs medical treatment. Foreign government negotiate deals with US based companies, and the US companies take whatever they can get as pure profit. There are other hard issues here too, but this issue is somewhat unique to the US and it is different from the other "public assistance" issues so I would say to just treat it as a different issue.
    As for conservatives trying to undercut a basic income, I think one motivation for my question is whether there aren't ways to build a genuine support for a basic income among "conservatives". Conservatives would need to perceive basic income as a fundamental alternative to "welfare" and other such programs. Many current programs penalize people who actually earn money. They really are trapped. I saw one analysis that said that unless you had a job paying $44,000/year, it made more financial sense to be on public assistance. Another reason conservatives could support basic income is that it undercuts one party rule in lower income areas. In many political districts, barely contested primaries enable Democratic Party hacks to win general elections, since the candidates are able to claim that Republicans are seeking to reduce the benefits on which many voters depend. This creates a dependent class of voters who automatically vote for whatever candidate is endorsed by the Democratic machine. I'm not faulting them. They need the money. But if conservatives see a way to undercut this, and to open up these areas to actual political competition and debate, then I think some will support basic income.
    This might involve some framing. Basic income would need to be seen not as a handout,, but as a security measure aimed at preventing people from falling into desperation and helping them to accomplish things.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  19. cassius

    cassius
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes:
    6,463
    Business will attempt to replace us with AI as it is getting smarter every day and may soon take what we've taught it and surpass us. Maybe I'm old enough to see what has happened since I was around in the time before time. I see what has happened more clearly than someone who just grew up with it. But we are being replaced. Thing is the replacers don't realize that they too can be replaced. Something created us whether it was an actual god or another sort of species. And we in turn have continued to create with AI and will to most likely eventually be replaced especially if yes, euthanasia becomes a thing. And I can see that happening because we refuse to learn from our past. Again, if an individual wants this then they ought not to be stopped or told they can't but when someone or something else decides then that does introduce an evil or whatever application into the situation and we've seen or heard about it before. But that's a whole other issue. I once made a silly statement about that I wondered what horses thought when they were replaced by the automobile so don't think that humans can't be replaced.