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Forum Guidelines and Moderation Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Forum Discussion' started by aveline, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. StarfoxJ

    StarfoxJ
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    The real problem here is. Nobody complained about the amount of Toby abuse. That was the real mean. Human resources deserved better. all those mean gifs!
     
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  2. electrolyte

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    100% this. I was informed that any comments that looked like "ribbing" between these members was not ribbing, and was actual hurtful/sarcastic comments that had been an ongoing issue and if mods noticed it, we were asked to help stop it. Because of this, I read the "compliment" as a sarcastic, passive aggressive comment. And with that information that I had, I responded with the "let's not". That's the full extent of it.

    For me, personally, I very rarely go into the Never Ending thread. It's not really my thing and I've poked in a couple of times but not often and not lately. This is one of the things I was alluding to in an earlier post in this conversation: it's not possible for mods to keep up on the friendship type/level/style of every member of this forum, especially when it happens in places other than the work thread. 99.9% of any moderation I do happens in the work thread because that's where I am 99.9% of the time. So since I was informed that there were issues between members that mods were asked to step in on, regardless of where that had originated from, I enforced it where I "live", which is in the work thread.
     
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    #222 electrolyte, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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  3. PeachyRider

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    Real Southern Comfort

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    I feel like we're just going around in circles here. As long as the boards become the place it use to be or better - that's all that matters. Admins will agree with fellow admins and I know Toby, Rerun and I will agree with ourselves.
     
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  4. Rerun

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    I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but let's look at the facts: I "liked" a lot of posts. I posted encouragement to people. I have never complained about anyone. I think I only had one post of mine mod-edited in the time I've been here.

    But based on what @Jaded@Jaded just said right here, my posts were being watched more closely than others. You're picking apart one post I made, TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT ISN'T THERE. Is it any wonder why I felt paranoid every time I posted after that, until it grew so much that I couldn't post any further?

    Which is funny, because there are forum members whose main persona is only to razz people, create distractions, and "shitpost". I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus here, but I'm sure we can all think of people this describes. These folks are given a free pass, or the mods look the other way, because... what? They're friends? Allies? What is it? Is it a donation perk?? Seriously, what have *I* done to make me WORSE than these people?

    Last week, there was a post on the Mturk Crowd Facebook page inviting us to give feedback on how to improve the forum. So here I am. But do you REALLY want the feedback, or will you continue to bury your heads in the sand? Bias exists anywhere, not just here. I saw it back at MTG, too. If everything here is fine and you don't notice any level of change in the atmosphere of this forum, then by all means, this conversation is over. But if you DO want things to improve, then recognize where problems are. Based on some of the PMs I've received about this subject, I am not alone in my thinking.

    Hey, @kryss@kryss, I get where you're coming from. All I wanted was a consistent enforcement of the rules. If so-called "snark" is not allowed, then make it for everyone, not just a select few. Again, there are people whose main persona is ONLY to incite and instigate. They continue to post in this nature on a daily basis without any issues. But me? Someone who tries to do the right thing every day? Oh yeah, @Rerun@Rerun, we're watching YOU.

    As far as I know, there's only one person at this forum that doesn't like me, and they told me to stay away from them, which I have done. We do police ourselves. The problem is when I am being singled out by people in power, and I have no one else to go to. I've never complained about anyone, or reported any posts. I don't know if anyone has ever complained about or reported me. But clearly I was flagged, if my posts needed to be analyzed and scrutinized more carefully. And if that's the case, then a posting rule for me, and me alone, should have been created, just as I requested.

    Please note that I really do respect all of you, which is WHY I never tried to make waves. It was my hope and desire that you respect me in the same way, though. And I'm not saying this in a passive aggressive way... I legitimately mean it. Good luck to you all.
     
  5. Jaded

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    Yours, in particular, weren't being watched. Yours, Toby's, and Peaches were. The three of you as a group. Had peachy said what you said he would have gotten the same response, as would Toby. You just happened to be the one that said it.

    Think about it this way, let's say (picking random names from the Users who have read this thread) Vanyanka comes to me saying her jokes with Lil Queen Trashmouth and Kerek used to be jokes but aren't anymore. From that point on We would watch those three people's posts to keep them from picking on Van. (Or from Van picking on them.)

    Do you understand why we would do that? I honestly don't know how to say this any other way and I hope it does clear it up, but if it doesn't I don't know what else to say, I'm sorry.
     
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  6. StarfoxJ

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    So we were being ''watched'' cause somebody complained about jokes. When the problem could've been solved by placing said parties on ignore?

    I take 100 percent blame for how I reacted towards peach those two or three times it got heated. I was awful towards him in public. and I apologize.
    I deserved to have eyeballs looked at me.

    But sitting here and thinking of stuff and placing puzzle pieces in my brain, it baffles me. but I think I understand the rerun connection and it is beyond childish. People suck. Stuff that happened privately I think melted over to complaints. (not you mods, or rerun or peach)
     
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  7. aveline

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    never helpful

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    You're the one that complained. Would you like to us to refresh your memory? We do keep records of every interaction we have with other members, as well as discussions we have in staff chat, and I'm sure @kryss@kryss would be more than happy to provide you with screenshots of you complaining about what was going on.

    The rerun connection is that he often joined in when you were saying things about Peachy on the forum. There were countless sarcastic or snarky posts directed at Peachy for things that he was doing, like here, here, here, here, all while Toby was making comments like this and this. And that was only one discussion on one evening (this was ongoing.) How could any reasonable person trying to moderate this forum not think that Rerun had a problem with Peachy after seeing comments like that on multiple occasions?


    I've been going through staff logs this morning and I see months of discussion between us all about the rampant sarcasm and snark on the forum around that time. It wasn't just you three, either. There were several people doing it. It got to the point where members were complaining to us about it on a nearly daily basis because they all felt that it created an unwelcoming atmosphere. I see all of these discussions in my logs and it's just us going back and forth ad nauseum about who we thought was being serious and who wasn't. As the other admins have stated in this thread, that's very difficult for us to do, so we often can't do anything but watch or try to ask people what their intentions are (and they're obviously not always honest about that). But when we do get clued in that something is going on, and we can look at post histories and the sorts of things that are being said back and forth between a group of members, we're going to step in and start trying to clean it up. It is our job as admins and moderators on this forum and I can assure you that we make every possible effort to do that job fairly and consistently. If any one of you three feels that one of you shouldn't have ever been involved in this, then I'm sorry. All we have to go off of when we make decisions is what we see in front of us.
     
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  8. StarfoxJ

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    Where did I complain? When I said Peachy was an asshole? where rerun is too nice for his own good? I said it to his face. then we hashed it out. or please bring out all the insanely private stuff that was going on, that I confided in kryss and put that in public. im sure some of the other parties would love that. If you wanna call that complaining. then by god, go ahead. other than that. I dont recall ever complaining about anything that I didnt say to somebody myself. or that it was brought up to me.
     
  9. aveline

    aveline
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    I just think you're contradicting yourself. You make that comment like you don't understand why we were watching the situation between all of you, like it was all due to complaints coming from people that don't use the ignore button, when it was you, yourself, that presented this situation to us for us to deal with.

    I wasn't suggesting that @kryss@kryss would post those screenshots in this thread (I meant she could refresh your memory via PM), and I'm sorry if you didn't want the fact that you talked to us known to others, but if you're going to make post after post in this thread, accusing us of somehow overreaching in our involvement with the situation, I would appreciate that everyone be forthcoming with what exactly happened.
     
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  10. StarfoxJ

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    I dont get it. I dont get it at all. I get ME. me and peach were fighting. I've said me, i apologized for it atleast twice now in the past couple hours. The rerun part I dont get. He's being weird right now. cause he's the nicest guy in the world. Maybe he's too sensitive, or maybe you get beat down to the point where it's not funny anymore.... then that's my fault also. There's private drama that's not my place to spill out. I was assuming. that a person complained, I could've been and probably am wrong. But I said, people suck, (no, not you mods) specifically)

    I've seen squatty be a prick. Blue, pleco, actual mean stuff. Nothing gets said. atleast not publicly. But somehow our stuff becomes ''watched'' It got publicly said with rerun. instead of privately. thats the only point I brought up. You're kinda making it personal when it doesnt have to be.

    I dont know what you're talking about when I presented the situation to you or kryss. I've never talked to you privately. I dmed you and elecro once. saying you dont owe anybody any explanations for anything, for some rule that got implenteded, And you didnt respond only she did. cause you dont, You dont even owe me rerun, or peach anything, but the dialogue is appreciated and really all we wanted. this is not our house. we are guests. and we are obeying the ''house'' rules. I barely post anymore, asked toby to be killed, rerun is pretty much gone now.

    and the only mod, who's reached out is kryss. The only time it's been brought up was when kryss pmed me to ask for clarification. Conversations may have sparked off of that. But me, the one who took the most abuse on this forum on that god forsaken toby name. I've never brought it up. if you wanna show me via pm that I have. please do and ill eat my words. and apologize publicly.
     
    #230 StarfoxJ, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  11. Squatty

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    I understand that you are upset and trying to make a point, but can you please avoid pointing out specific people.
     
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  12. Rerun

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    It's funny you should bring that up, @aveline@aveline, because my commentary that day wasn't directed toward @PeachyRider@PeachyRider, but actually the lack of moderation that ALLOWED him to post off-topic discussions in the past. (You know, arbitrary enforcement of the rules.)
    And making me feel like my posts were being watched more closely than others until I became completely uncomfortable makes a welcoming atmosphere?
    So let me ask you, and I mean this with complete sincerity: why was this never clarified to us? I specifically asked one mod - more than once - to please clarify what I can and can't post. She claimed there was no different set of rules for me and that I was free to post as much as I want. But that was clearly NOT the case.

    Instead, I was left here to wonder WHAT I did wrong and WHAT ELSE would escalate the situation. Not a single one of you would answer me. I was slapped on the wrist and expected me to learn my lesson. Maybe it was obvious to you, but when I asked on multiple occasions for someone to explain it to me and to clarify things in a language I can understand, I was ignored. For folks that want to make this a welcoming place for all, *I* certainly didn't feel welcomed here the last several weeks.

    You're right, I'm sure it's VERY difficult for the mods to distinguish malicious behavior from sarcasm. Of course, a couple of you have posted - more than once - that you don't enjoy being mods and that you wish you weren't. Sarcastic or legit? I don't know. But let's not pretend that we're all not guilty of it either.

    It took me this long to get you to admit that my posts WERE being watched closely, which goes against what was said to me about there being no different set of rules. I mean, unless you guys are making this up as you go along, then there should have been no reason for ONE of you to inform me of how to improve my behavior in the forum. I could then have a list of people I wasn't allowed to respond to, making your jobs that much easier. As it was said before, we're all adults here. Are we not reasonable people?
     
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  13. aveline

    aveline
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    Right... because this post was about arbitrary enforcement of the rules, not about Peachy:
    How about this one? Different thread, different day. Is this also not directed at Peachy?:


    Guess what. Our job as moderators on this forum is to watch people's posts, sometimes with a bit of scrutiny if we think something is going on. We do it every single day because it's part of our job (probably the most important part.) This isn't all about you.



    See the above quoted posts. It's stuff like that that we were trying to discourage and I'm sure we made that pretty clear.



    And days like this don't make it any easier. My point is that we are all human beings here. Sometimes this "job" gets very stressful and we have bad days and need to vent. We don't get paid for this. We do it because we enjoy the community and want things to run smoothly. Sometimes when we try to make things run smoothly, we catch a lot of shit from people. Yeah, there are some days where I really hate being here. But I don't think for a second that it's not worth it.
     
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  14. aveline

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    Anyways, it's clear that this is not going anywhere. If you can't understand that we have an obligation to deal with problems on this forum, and that we were only dealing with a problem that was brought up to us, then I don't know what to say.

    I'm done arguing about it.
     
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  15. kryss

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    I went back and forth with you several times via PM explaining to you that there is not a different set of rules for you, and there isn't.

    I explained in detail what we meant by "snarky" to you.

    Being a moderator can be a very tedious and stressful job. There's a lot of different personalities on the forum, and some days it can really take a lot out of you. A lot of the things that go on here happens, not on the daily thread, but behind the scenes. I'm not making excuses, but what we're doing here now, is trying to improve the quality and everyone's behavior (including our own) to a more productive, and positive environment.

    Paying attention to what someone on the forum is saying does not equate to having a different set of rules than everyone else.
     
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  16. Rerun

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    @kryss@kryss, you already apologized to me yesterday for not communicating to me in a way I understood. Why are you going back on that now?

    I'm not sure if you skipped over the part of our PM where I specifically asked you what I can and cannot post here. Why not tell me what will keep me from being watched closely so I can make your jobs easier?

    @Jaded@Jaded, to her credit, admitted to me that different people had their posts watched. At least she owned up to it, and I thank her for that.

    If there are no different sets of rules, then let me ask you...

    If Bode says, "kryss, you're horrible", it's okay.
    If Rerun says, "Toby, you're horrible", I'm reprimanded.

    ...how can that be, if I'm not held to a different standard than everyone else? If what @aveline@aveline said is true and you were all inundated with complaints about snark, then how does the average person know the difference between the above messages?

    Random Poster says, "I think Toby is a good guy and we're friends", it's okay.
    Rerun says, "I think Toby is a good guy and we're friends", it's "let's not" and facepalm and passive-aggressive accusations.

    Tell me again how the rules aren't different for me.

    Instead of saying, "hey, Rerun, we recognize a problem and here are the steps we're taking to solve it", you argue and get defensive. You don't really want feedback, unless it involves brown nosing. Well, I've done my share of brown nosing here already. I was one of the most LOYAL members of this forum, and I treated you with RESPECT, even though none was clearly shown to me in return. Remember, it wasn't the other posters that chased me away... it was your alienation of me that caused me to feel uncomfortable here.
     
  17. kryss

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    carburante al fuoco

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    -----------------------------------------------------------

    I think we're all adult enough to know what "tone down the snark" means, or "lets all try to be more polite". I tried my best to be clear with you.

    There are TONS of PMs sent to members regarding issues you see and issues you don't. Please do no assume because you don't see a moderator address something in the daily thread, that it wasn't address elsewhere. Every moderator has a different style and way of handling situations.

    We are actively trying to address the issues, I apologize if you feel like we're not. I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I feel I'm not being given the same common courtesy here. I spent time talking to you in PMs and felt I treated you with respect.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
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    #237 kryss, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  18. Kadauchi

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    The easiest way for it to be implemented would be for people to label times in a uniform way.

    Instead of doing:
    1. 3:45
    2. 3m
    3. 12
    4. 20s
    They would need to do
    1. hit time: 3:45
    2. hit time: 3m
    3. hit time: 12
    4. hit time: 20s
    or something similar that a script could hook into. It wouldn't have to be exactly the same but it needs to be close,
     
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  19. <Gucci>

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    Francis Manancis ...fuck you...

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    Am I in the right thread?
    This is about hit poster awards.
    I don't particularly think anyone should be locked out. I think hit posters should still get awards. Yes even repeatedly. If someone is just posting every single hit on scraper... it's just annoying.

    I try to post everything with a decent TO at the very least. I think there is value in the hit posters on the forum. It's even less money than the crowd pleaser award. That means only one thing in my eyes. They care about the community more than to go after the other award.

    I understand the idea of maybe letting other people shine and become popular as a crowd pleaser....

    we don't lock anyone out for making too many ahk scripts or greasy fork scripts. I think maybe hit posters bring a lot to the table. Maybe there should be an award for people that post scripts... just an idea

    I also don't think hit posters will stop posting hits regardless of how they are awarded. Posting hits is about loving this community to me personally. I think a lot of hit posters may feel the same way about some of what I'm saying.
    I'll always be a hit poster, share my hits and love this community.
    :blueheart:<Gucci>
     
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  20. LoveMuppet

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    I just want to echo this. I am super shiny new and the reason why I started posting was because of all the banter and small talk. It's fun, sarcastic adult interaction which I don't necessarily get on a daily basis (thanks to my teacup and miniature humans). I like that it's all kind of thrown together, it makes working a lot less monotonous. And I found it pretty easy to jump right in, obviously.
     
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